Minutes of the Meeting of 10th September 2019
Minutes:
Present:
David Walker, Bishop of Manchester (Chair)
David Arnold MBE
Cym D’Souza
Nasir Hafezi
Sally Lester
Paul Horrocks
IN ATTENDANCE:
Beverly Hughes Deputy Mayor (Policing and Crime)
Peter Langmead-Jones Greater Manchester Police (GMP)
Arif Nawaz Greater Manchester Police (GMP)
Damien O’Connell Greater Manchester Police (GMP)
Steve Annette GM Combined Authority (GMCA)
Dave Byrne GM Combined Authority (GMCA)
Smyth Harper GM Combined Authority (GMCA)
Lee Teasdale GM Combined Authority (GMCA)
EC/19/22 INTRODUCTIONS AND APOLOGIES
The Chair welcomed members of the Independent Police Ethics Committee (ETHICS COMMITTEE) to the meeting.
Apologies for absence were received from Sean McHale, Shaid Mushtaq, Roy Walters and Ian Pilling (GMP).
EC/19/23 DECLARATIONS OF INTEREST
There were none.
EC/19/24 MINUTES FROM THE PREVIOUS MEETING HELD ON 3 JUNE AND MATTERS ARISING
The minutes of the meeting held on 3 June 2019 were submitted for approval. It was agreed the minutes were an accurate reflection of the meeting.
It was noted that there had been an accidental note on the agenda stating that the meeting would be livestreamed. The importance of the meeting staying outside of the public domain to allow for open and frank discussion was highlighted.
Matters arising:
Clocks in Custody – It was advised that a national guidance refresh was taking place. It had also been brought to attention that Hampshire was considered screens with a range of messaging engagement opportunities – however there would be funding issues should there be a move towards looking to implement this in GM.
It was agreed that a further report on Clocks in Custody would be sought in six months’ time, to view the actions taken in light of the refreshed national guidance.
RESOLVED/-
EC/19/25 USE OF FORCE - GMP
GMP presented a paper to the Committee outlining the wider context, and the data used, to allow for an increased understanding and awareness of the varying aspects associated with the use of force by Greater Manchester Police. The report was structured by the four areas the Committee sought further information on:
The report sought to provide context to, and highlight, the multifaceted range of issues that could cause and/or contribute to the raw data. The report also sought to provide and emphasise the complex cultural and social economic factors that directly and indirectly impacted upon the statistics.
Key messages included a rise in incident demand of 1% between 2017/18 and 2018/19; force remained used in less than one percent of all incidents GMP attended; Taser drawn usage had risen by 64%, during the same period there had been a 30% uplift in Taser training – in line with this, Taser discharges had risen 24%; use of force in regards to gender and ethnicity remained largely unchanged; public complaints against proportion of force remained static at 3%; assaults on officers and staff had risen by 13%.
Comments and Questions
Committee Members sought further context on the reason for the rise in firearms being drawn. It was advised that there had been an increase in the number of sieges last year – which could contribute a large number of firearms drawn within a single incident, as multiples could be recorded within the same incident.
Discussion took place evaluating the efficacy of Taser use. Whilst there were different opinions, there was a general feeling within GMP that they did provide a valuable deterrent and did help officers to feel safer. There was ongoing debate nationally around whether all officers should be in possession of Tasers – there was great resistance to this route, and this was reflected in GMP. Figures elsewhere had shown that the more officers were armed with them, the more they became used – so GMP felt that there needed to be balance. The uplift in training had focussed around frontline deployable officers, but was always done on a case by case basis.
It was asked whether there had been developments in personal protective equipment such as stab vests. It was advised that as technology changed, new and more effective pieces of equipment came onto the market – such as lighter and more ergonomic stab vests. Unfortunately, new advances in equipment often had significant expense attached and took time to acquire.
A query was raised about the levels of force used at GMP compared against national rates. The Home Office had tasked each force in the country to provide data around force – GMP officers had spoken to colleagues in the Metropolitan and West Midlands Police Forces, and they had indicated that the confidence in their figures was not perfect at present, and for that reason they had not been included within the report – however the figures they did have were comparable to those seen in GM. It was advised that these could still be provided to Committee Members if they wished, on the proviso that they were not guaranteed 100% accurate figures.
Discussion took place around what may be going through an officer’s mind when involved in a situation where use of force may be required. It was advised that an officer’s mind would be racing with many considerations – first and foremost staying alive, but also defending any colleagues; defending members of the public; level of proportionality in relation to the situation at hand; the legality of the force being used and the justifications around the force being used.
Discussion then took place around the consideration of breaches after force had been used. It was advised that body-worn videos were being promoted in GMP and was now mandatory in certain incidents – with a push taking place to see them as mandatory across the board – as this served to increase openness and transparency.
It was asked what the training for officers in use of force entailed. It was advised that extensive training took place that involved ‘scenario days’ that focussed on real-time practice situations. Every officer also had a mandatory requirement to attend a two day refresher course every single year.
It was enquired whether the increase in use of Tasers had resulted in a decrease in any other forms of force. At the present time a clear answer could not be given as the introduction of Tasers had been relatively recent, and so figures needed to be collated over a number of years before this could be answered with confidence.
Discussion took place about ratios of force use by gender, with a larger statistical proportion of male officers using force than female – was this worth more research? It was agreed that it was a fascinating area worth further study at a forensic level, however it would be surprised ever there could ever be a singular reason highlighted which addressed this lack of balance.
RESOLVED/-
1. That the report on the use of force be noted by the Committee.
2. Figures on use of force by the Metropolitan Police and West Midlands Police be fed back to the Committee.
EC/19/26 USE OF ALGORITHMS - GMP
A paper was presented to the Committee providing an oversight in the use of algorithms by GMP, highlighting issues that the Committee could consider further.
In common with ‘traditional’ human decision making, a number of ethical consideration arose from the use of decision making algorithms, as they could operate in very complex and semi-autonomous ways. Ethical concerns included:
It was considered that it would be helpful to be consistent in how algorithms were applied in terms of policing. There also needed to be general principles in place covering the use of the algorithms in reduce the risk of bias and the potential for discrimination. It was important not to fully automate and give decisions over to machines – they should be used as a tool to assist. The avoidance of human bias would always be difficult, as the data which the algorithms process is provided by humans. Data sets were also very varied and usually incomplete – which raised questions around the use of any applications that relied on data sets.
It was suggested that the Committee Members may wish to reflect on two or three particular areas that posed the most interesting issues in regards to ethical considerations, that could then be looked at in more depth at a later meeting.
Committee Members suggested that for the sake of clarity, it would be better to refer to the item as an ethical consideration of ‘data science’ going forward, as the term algorithm could take the discussion in the wrong direction.
RESOLVED/-
1. That the information report on the use of algorithms be noted.
2. That Committee Members be asked to consider several areas they feel the most relevant in respect of ethical considerations to look at in more depth at future meetings.
3. That any future discussions on this area going forward be labelled as ‘Data Science’ for clarity.
EC/19/27 COMMITTEE MEMBERSHIP – UPDATE ON THE IPEC MEMBER RECRUITMENT PROCESS – GMCA
An update was provided to the Committee on the programme of work to recruit new members to the Independent Police Ethics Committee. As per the terms of the rolling membership model – four members of the Committee would be leaving at the close of the year meaning that plans needed to be in place for recruitment in 2020.
As part of this process, the Committee Terms of Reference were being refreshed, with benchmarking taking place against other committees around the country to make sure they were still appropriate.
A draft recruitment pack had been prepared and included in the agenda pack – feedback on this was sought from Committee Members.
Feedback that had already been received previously about gaps in the makeup of the committee had suggested that further legal expertise and knowledge of the health agenda would be welcome – more variation in sexual orientation, age range and ethnicity would also be valuable. The Chair would lead on an informal working group around this.
Comments and Questions
Members suggested that more weight needed to be placed on emphasising the importance of the working groups which took place outside of the Ethics Committee meetings. These groups often did a lot of the ‘heavy lifting’ and involved considerable commitment to undertaking a lot of independent reading and research. It was advised that further emphasis on this could be placed within the body text and the role profile.
Concern was expressed by Committee Members in regards to the term “increase legitimacy” – it was stated that this was not the purpose of the Committee – but rather it was about reassuring the communities of GM about the extant legitimacy of GMP, and with this in mind there was a need to really emphasise that the Committee sought to be a critical friend.
The responsibilities also needed to really emphasise how the Committee helped GMP to understand ethical issues they may not have even been aware of themselves. There were also other responsibilities that had not been highlighted, such as aiding decision making on live operations.
In reference to this, it was noted that members had not received such calls for assistance recently and this was something that might need to be raised with Ian Pilling.
It was agreed that Dave Byrne send a revised list of responsibilities around within the next few days for comments – with the Chair being given delegated responsibility to sign off on the final version.
RESOLVED/-
EC/19/28 UPDATE FROM FRAUD AND ECONOMIC CRIME WORKING GROUP
Highlights were provided to the Committee on work that had been taking place in the Fraud and Economic Crime Working Group.
Committee Members who had attended this Working Group provided further feedback. A site visit had taken place to Nexus House, the visit explicated to members how enormous the scale was of online fraud – this was an area growing at an enormous rate, and despite occasional news headlines, was managing to stay largely under the radar.
Greater Manchester was the second highest area of country for recorded online crime (behind London). It was considered that the reason for this was mainly down to the financial institutions based in the area.
Members had been impressed to see that the studies were not defined by a strictly financial criteria but were instead considered by the level of impact that the fraud had upon people’s lives. This did mean however, due to a lack of resources, that high value fraud committed against some companies/corporations would not be investigated.
The statistics around the number of people who had been caught were considered to be deeply worrying – with less than 5% of cases even having an identifiable perpetrator – less than 2% of perpetrators being caught, and the court figures being so low that they were not even known.
Unfortunately this form of crime remained a relatively low priority for GMP, with no increases in staffing being made available. This starving of resources hurt Manchester, and it was considered that recommending an approach in which the Proceeds of Crime Act was used to help fund further resources could be a sound approach.
Further work around prevention was needed, but this in itself was a huge area. This was slowly developing, but was still considered to be nowhere near the level it needed to be.
RESOLVED/-
EC/19/29 COMMITTEE WORK PLAN AND ANNUAL UPDATE – GMCA
An update was provided to the Committee on the Work Plan, as well as an update highlighting the work of the Committee over the previous 12 months.
Committee Members agreed to take the Communications Strategy at the December 2019 meeting. This had been deferred following the introduction of a new Interim Communications Director at GMP. It was agreed that two highlights that the Committee sought to draw out from the Strategy would be the use of body worn camera units, and concerns raised about the passing of protestor information in Manchester to the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP).
The Committee then undertook a brief conversation about the protestor and DWP concerns. It was explained that the GMP had information sharing protocols with multi-agency partners, and that during Operation Geraldton, Section 29 had been used with the potential that information could be passed to another agency for fraud purposes. No information sharing of this type was in any way intended to hamper any human or legal right to protest.
Committee Members expressed concerns that whilst this may have been perfectly legal, there were still potential ethical concerns at play, with Members questioning whether a similar approach had been taken to protestors at the recent Extinction Rebellion marches. Members stated that they would be interested to know how much basic information had been taken from those protesting on Deansgate, and where this information had been shared – and did GDPR and other new data sharing protocols have an impact upon the ability to do this?
RESOLVED/-
EC/19/30 ANY OTHER BUSINESS AND CONCLUDING THOUGHTS
The following items were raised under other business:
RESOLVED/-
That a report on the bedding in of IOPS be provided at the next meeting of the Committee